Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKARIUS
200 years of making people reap raw goods and refine them so a white wholesaler or retailer can make a profit and only throw their table scraps out to them in return is an attrosity that I think along side the almost total destruction of a people to take their land would put America on a top ten of villainy a mistake is we didn't know, we are sorry and please let us fix this. America has none of those attributes to back them up.

If you don't understand what I am saying in the first paragraph then let me give an analogy: Lets say they made donuts 200 or so years ago, you first have to reap the grains from the field to make the flour, then process those grains into flour, then distribute it to the location where it's needed then along with other things reaped,processed and distributed mix and prepare the donuts. Now you have gotten all these services for free by unwilling free labor that you STOLE from those people and got all these products by the labor of their hands-then you sold the product which cost you nothing, pocketed the cash and paid the one who actually did the work nothing, in fact you beat them because they could not produce faster. This is how America got it's head start in wealth amongst the comparison of other nations.

In wealth the only people that rival America are those that also took part in some degree or another in the same actions( Japan is the exception because we furnished Japan with the means to be who they are today ). This is by attrocity when many people here today want to say America was built by hard work( which is true it just wasn't the hard work of the person who reaped all the bennefit.

Am I saying all of this to just cut America down, no I don't think their is a nation out there that is proper, just or uncorrupted.

If we are so big on working hard to change things then why are so busy working so hard to change everybody else? I see alot more work from our government trying to change the face of the world rather then starting right here. As far as this " Amazing Higher Learning we have " our edjucation system is in the dumps, people from other lands are coming over here and legitimately taking the higher paying jobs. Yet we send our youth to die instead of rising to a higher intellectual level.

As far as the Middle East and the war; everyone knows it was a mistake to start the fight in Iraq when our enemy or at least the highest priority in the war on terror is to get those that have offended us first, Ali'quaeda and Osama but where are they now? Probably on the beach of Los Angeles right now sipping down margarita's. Reguardless of the fact the we were wrong though the fire is now started, we have enflamed the whole Arab community and all muslims all over the world by picking the fight the way we did.

If we back out they will attack us the republicans have made sure of that, no matter who runs and wins the presidency this will be on their plate. You don't have to be muslim to think that America is trying to dominate the world and impose the " Democratic way on everyone when if you look at our system morally and effeciency without exploitation we are no better then anyone else and worse then some. I am by no means saying that these people we wage war against aren't attrocious but America has a long nose and it's in everybodies business but it's own. Use the cure at home and make sure it does it's full work before you start administering it to everyone else.


EDIT: We took this wealth from the world by taking people from out of their countries bringing them here and then enslaving them to free labor.

We destroyed a Populous of American Indians to take their land.

We took the land, we took the labor, why shouldn't we give back? When America gives back to the world it is not a gracous act, it's repaying a debt owed.



1. Weath is generated. It is not a zero-sum game. There is no pile of fixed money in the world. This is a really important concept that a lot of people seem to fail to grasp. When money is generated, it doesn't come out of some fixed pile such that others therefore have less of an opportunity to generate money for themsevles. This is something many people *really* need to wrap their heads around, IMHO.

2. By going into third world nations and creating companies, we created jobs for people who didn't have jobs. One can say that we didn't pay them much, and that may be true, but something is greater than nothing. Having a job is a lot more than having no job. Some people call this 'exploitation of the third world by the first'; I couldn't disagree more. If these countries are going to become first world they need jobs, education, and a means to better themselves, not just hand-outs.

3. We have given a lot of money to developing nations, and we have also gone in and started companies there that have created jobs. "Teaching a man to fish is better than giving him a fish." This is very key.

4. Much of the third world's plight is due to corrupt governments. You have nations that have a LOT of natural resources (Iraq with its oil, Mexico with its oil, hydro electric power, etc.). Then you have nations like Japan and other countries who basically have little to no natural resources, yet they are thriving first world nations. This needs to be looked at and the reasons understood. Blaming the first world for its success as if it's feeding off of the third simply isn't the case.

5. Much of the direct money and food, etc. that we have given to third world countries is taken by the warlords and other horrible people running those countries and not distributed to the people. I personally think we should intervene in a lot of these corrupt governments and set things right, giving these people a chance to thrive, creating corporations and companies there giving them jobs, etc. But then when we do invade countries that are corrupt and have horrible records in terms of human rights, etc. we get criticized as being imperialist and doing it so we can make money, etc. You can't have it both ways -- you can't complain that the first world doesn't help out the third and then also advocate isolationism or assert that when the first world does go in and create jobs we are somehow being imperialist or exploiting them.

6. A great book to read on all of this is The Economics of Politics and Race by Thomas Sowell. He's also written many excellent books on the topic and related topics since then, as have other authors.

Here are some comments from Amazon.com on the book:

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Thomas Sowell has written both about race and economics in other books so it was inteersting to see Sowell combine these tow areas like this. He looks at historical reaosn to look at why certain areas of the world wer bale to acquire wealth while others did not. He looks at how different group's migrations to different parts of the world were similar, similar to the race trilogy. He also looks at the first world and the third world now looking to explain their differences and histories
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The message of Thomas Sowell's "The Economics and Politics of Race" is simple and easy to understand: human cultures are not equal and some of them are better than others, their patterns of values having a more decisive role in the social perfomance of their respective members than any alleged, or even real and appaling, discrimination.

Sowell demonstrates that ethnic groups perform differently, even when they are subjected to a similar hostile social condition, like the chinese, the jews or the blacks in the USA, in the beginning of the 20th century.

The reason? A strong commitment, or not, to such values as hardworking, stable family ties and a firm will of improving their own social fate rather than blaming third ones by that same fate.

Similarly, when the pretense source of damage disappears - for example, in societies where certain ethnic groups are largely the majority and "bias" against them is inexistent -, not only their poor social behavior does not vanish, but, contrarily, worsens in a terrible way...
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A wonderfully written comparision of the successes and failures of various races and cultures. Sowell has no problem pointing out how some races have more "human capital" than others and therefore are historically more successful.

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An important book by one of our most provocative thinkers, September 12, 1998 - Reviewer: A reader
This author is cited by Justice Clarence Thomas as one of the most important intellects of the 20th century. Further, he claims this book more than any other single book was the catalyst which provoked him to throw his hat into the public arena. More attention needs to be paid to this special book


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